Please read below for the unofficial transcript of the pope’s November 26 in-flight press conference, during his flight from Tokyo, Japan to Rome; compiled by the Catholic News Agency
Pope Francis: It was an intense journey and also with a categorical change [in the middle] because Thailand is one thing and Japan is another thing, and one cannot evaluate things with the same category. Those realities must be evaluated in the context of their own identity, and they are two totally different realities. That requires double work, and thanks to you for this. And also these were very intense days. And I think the work was strong. Thank you. I felt close to you in this work.
Matteo Bruni, director of the Holy See Press Office: Good. Then building on that, listening to the questions, it will also be an opportunity to talk more deeply these days.
Fr. Makato Yamamoto (Catholic Shimbun, Japan): Good evening Holy Father, we thank you very much for having come to Japan from so far away. I am a diocesan priest of [inaudible[ right near Nagasaki. I would especially ask you to visit Nagasaki and Hiroshima: Holy Father, how did you feel in Nagasaki and Hiroshima? And I would like to ask one thing: do society and the Western Church have something to learn from society and the Eastern Church?
Pope Francis: I’ll start from the last question. There is one thing that has enlightened me so much, a saying: lux ex oriente, ex occident luxus. ‘Light comes from the east and luxuriousness – consumerism – comes from the west.’ [ed. note: this phrase has been attributed to Polish poet Stanislaw Jerzy Lec]
There is precisely an Eastern wisdom that is not only wisdom of knowledge, but wisdom of times, of contemplation, which for Western society quickly always helps so much: to learn a little contemplation, to stop, to look poetically at what’s things are. Outside of the limits. Then, this poetry, this gratuity, searches also the perfection of fasting, penitence. I believe that the Western society should think more about this wisdom. This frenetic culture should stop a little. I don’t know if this serves to illuminate the difference, but it is what we would need.
As to the first : Nagasaki and Hiroshima both suffered the atomic bomb and this makes them similar. There was a difference. In Nagasaki, it wasn’t only the atomic bomb but also the Christians. Nagasaki has ancient roots, an ancient Christianity,the persecution of Christians was throughout Japan, but in Nagasaki it was very strong.
This is a Christian phenomenon that relativizes, in the sense of the word, the atomic bomb because they are two things: if one goes only to Nagasaki he says “be Christian, the atomic bomb” and stops there.
But to go to Hiroshima, this was above all about the atomic bomb. Because it is not a Christian city like Nagasaki. This is why I wanted to go to both. In both there is the atomic disaster.
Hiroshima was a true human catechesis on cruelty– cruelty! And I couldn’t see the Hiroshima museum, there was no time, because that was a long day, but they say it’s terrible, terrible, and there are letters from the heads of state, the generals, explaining how one could do even greater disaster.
For me it was a much more moving experience even than Nagasaki’s. Nagasaki, that of martyrdom: I saw the museum of martyrdom, but that of Hiroshima was very touching.
There I reiterated that the use of nuclear weapons is immoral. This must go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And not only the use but the possession because in the West the possession or madness of any ruler … The madness of one who can destroy humanity. Think of that saying of Einstein: the fourth world war will be made with sticks and stones. Have I answered your question?
Shinichi Kawarada (The Asahi Shimbun, Japan): You have said that lasting peace cannot be achieved without disarmament. Japan enjoys US military protection and is also a nuclear energy producer, which carries a serious risk to the environment and humanity, as was tragically shown by the Fukushima accident. How can Japan contribute to the realization of world peace? Should nuclear power plants be turned off?
Pope Francis: I return to the possession of nuclear industries, right? An accident can always happen and you have experienced it, even the ‘triple disaster’ that has destroyed so much. Nuclear power is limited. The weapons, leave them [aside] because it’s destruction. But the use [of nuclear energy], is very limited because we have not yet been able to reach total safety.
You can tell me: ‘Yes, even with electricity you can make a disaster for an insecurity. But it’s a small disaster.’ A nuclear power plant nuclear disaster will be a major disaster. And yet the security has not been worked out. I, and this is my personal opinion, I would not use nuclear energy until there is a total security of use.
I offer an idea: some say that [nuclear power] is beyond the custody of creation and will destroy it, that nuclear energy must stop. It is under discussion. I stop at safety: there is no security to guarantee [there will be no disaster]. Yes, one [disaster] in the world in ten years. But even then[it has effects] on creation, the disaster of the nuclear power on creation and on the person … There was also the disaster in Ukraine, so many years….. I distinguish this from war, from weapons. But even here I say: we must do research on safety, both regarding avoiding a disaster and on the environment[al consequences] And I think we have gone beyond the limit. Beyond the limit. In agriculture, with pesticides, and doctors tell mothers not to feed their babies chickens treated with hormones….So many rare diseases are out there today due to our bad use of the environment, rare diseases. Caring for the environment is something that [we must do] today or never.
Returning to nuclear energy: safety and environmental protection.
Elisabetta Zunica (47 News, Japan): Good morning Holy Father. Hakawada Awano is a Japanese man already sentenced to death and now awaiting the review of his trial. He was present at the mass at the Tokyo dome but he had no way to speak with you. Could you confirm if a brief meeting with you was planned or not because the subject of the death penalty in Japan is much discussed.
Just over a month before the modification of the Catechism the execution of 13 prisoners was carried out [in Japan] and on this issue there was no reference in your speeches in this visit: Did you not want to raise this, and did you have the opportunity to speak with the prime minister?
Pope Francis: I didn’t know about that person’s death penalty case.
But on the prime minister: I have spoken in general of many problems of condemnations, of eternal processes that never end, both with death and without death. But I talked about the general problem, which also exists in other countries: prisons are overcrowded and people waiting in a jail without the presumption of innocence, wait, wait … fifteen days ago I made an intervention at the convention of international law and I talked seriously about the subject of the prisons of precaution and then the death penalty, which was clearly said that it is not moral that cannot be done.
I believe that this must be combined with a conscience that develops, for example, some countries cannot abolish the death penalty because of political problems, but to suspend it is a way of declaring without declaring a life sentence. But the problem of sentencing must always be for re-insertion (reintegration), sentencing without windows of horizon is not human. Even a life prisoner must think how he can reinsert himself, inside or outside, but always the horizon: the re-insertion.
You will say: but there are crazy convicts who have a problem with the genetic disease of incorrigible madness but we look for ways to at least build places that make such persons feel like people. In many parts of the world, prisons are overcrowded today, a storehouse of human flesh that instead of facilitating healthiness is often corrupted.
We must fight against the death penalty slowly. Slowly. There are cases that give me joy: states, countries, that say ‘we stop.’ I spoke with a state governor last year and he made almost a final suspension [of the death penalty] before leaving office, but these are steps of human consciousness. Other countries have not yet managed to incorporate that into the line of humanity.
